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| Poll |
| What do you think of the Che Guevara Poster? |
| Cutting edge. Like it |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Nice Idea. Not appropriate though |
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20% |
[ 1 ] |
| Slightly weird |
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20% |
[ 1 ] |
| Really dislike it |
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60% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 5 |
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| Author |
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MarkCrosby
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Post subject: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
 Posted: Dec 16, 2005 - 11:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Preston
Status: Offline
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The Churches Advertising Network (CAN) recently released their 2005 Christmas campaign, complete with Che Guevara-like poster and radio spots. The goal behind the Guevara poster is to show a powerful Christ and dispel the idea of Jesus as a "wimp in a white nightie."
What do you think?
Vote in the Poll and/or post your comments
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Ray
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Post subject: RE: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
Posted: Dec 16, 2005 - 11:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Posts: 3
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| Its different than your average posters! |
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RayBramford
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Post subject: RE: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
Posted: Dec 16, 2005 - 11:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2005
Posts: 813
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| I know the Che poster well..............I'd have used the cliched stereo typical Jesus with long hair image personally....easily recognised and therefore straighter to the point |
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MarkCrosby
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Post subject: RE: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
Posted: Dec 16, 2005 - 11:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Preston
Status: Offline
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I dislike the term 'revolution'. Love the idea. But it may encourage the "church = cult" thinking.
Jesus was revolutionary, however he was not about to raise a revolution. The definition we use for revolution is normally: "The overthrow of one government and its replacement with another," which is not what Jesus was about.
There is also the definition: "A sudden or momentous change in a situation" which is what Jesus did do - he changed a situation and helped people.
I'm all for postive Church marketing. But this may cause a negative impact, through sending the wrong impression of God. |
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Pickups
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Post subject: RE: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
Posted: Dec 16, 2005 - 07:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 160
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Surely Christ came to "overthrow one government with another" Isaiah says " He shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father----and the government shall be upon His Shoulders. [IS 9v6&7]
The government of Jesus rules in & through his people according to the ways of Christ.
Personal I think the poster is ugly . |
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MarkCrosby
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Post subject: RE: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
Posted: Dec 17, 2005 - 01:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Preston
Status: Offline
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Yes the government shall be upon his shoulders, but:
Romans 13:1-7 states: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. "
that doesn't sound like christ came to overthrow a government. |
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MarkCrosby
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Post subject: RE: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
Posted: Dec 17, 2005 - 01:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2004
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Location: Preston
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in addition to that last post, when searching the net on the topic i came across this (more proof that Jesus didn't come to overthrow a government):
That passage makes it abundantly clear. We are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order and promote justice (Gen 9:6; 1Cor 14:33; Rom 12: . We are to obey the government in everything - paying taxes, obey rules and laws, showing respect, etc. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the Apostle Paul wrote Romans 13:1-7, he was under the government of Rome, during the reign of Nero, perhaps that most evil of all the Roman Emperors. Paul still recognized that governments rule over him. How can we do any less?
The next question is: "Is there a time when we should not obey the laws of the land"? The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29. "Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: 'WE must obey God rather than men'!" From the foregoing we can plainly see that as long as the law of the land does not try to supersede the law of God, we are bound to obey. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to obey God's law.
and my own thoughts are that overthrowing a government is rebellion against God's chosen government, and therefore sin. jesus was perfect, therefore he didn't sin, therefore he did not come to overthrow a government,
"the government shall sit upon his shoulders". in the same way that we would give a piggy back to a small child who needs carrying, so the Government will be on Jesus' shoulders.
Excuse me if this doesn't make sense, I've just got back from DJing and i'm just winding down before I get some kip. |
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shizah
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 18, 2005 - 06:36 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Feb 17, 2005
Posts: 635
Status: Offline
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i like the idea of getting rid of the 'wimp' idea of jesus but oh
my goodness do not get me started on the churches' inability (hehehe)
to be original and their bizarre inexplicable need to use other logos
such as (Enjoy Jesus, the Real Thing...in place of Coca-Cola)....
And a bright white baby-face replacing Che's?
Mmmmm.
I'm not sure about that one. |
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daz
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 19, 2005 - 09:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 259
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i think an original idea would be for the church to be all she is in God. i am not opposed advertising campaigns or marketing (i don't like the baby face - why does it have to be white - let's think about it - Jesus would not have been white). anyways, if we, the church, actually believed all that God says in His word & reveals to us through His creation - we will not need advertising or marketing - people will come from all over because they have heard that God has revealed Himself...... the sick are healed, the lepers are made clean, the good news is preached to the poor & demons flee. Look at the gospels, Jesus did not have to advertise to get people to come to hear Him - He did not lobby the favour of the people or local government officials. The disciples & apostles did not advertise.
My question is - should the church advertise? |
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MarkCrosby
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 19, 2005 - 10:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Preston
Status: Offline
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yes the church should advertise. jesus lived in a day when there was little commercial activity, no media distractions.
in this day and age everything the commercial world does pulls people further away from God, and makes it harder for them to have time to think to themselves.
In order to break through this, several things are needed. Firstly the Jesus lifestyle as daz has described above, practise what we preach. But also people are bombarded with adverts and the media's viewpoint almost 24/7, even when they get on a bus there's advertising, go to the toilet and it's on the back of the door, watch a sport live and it's on the players/programme/pith/stadium, catch a taxi and the taxi is a moving billboard with adverts on the seats/windows, visit your email account and there's adverts at the top or popping up, watch the 10'o'clock news and you can't help but be engrossed in public relations stunts; likewise in papers or magazines, even radio is made up of adverts and/or PR stunts.
The students that came to our church this September came because of our advertising campaign (http://www.prestonvineyard.org/Article81.html) but stayed because of our lifestyles and faith.
this website is in itself an advertising medium, if people search for a church in preston, we come up quite highly... Search engines are powered by advertising, it’s subtle but the better (technical etc ect) website you have the higher you can rank on search engines – therefore the more people hear about you, therefore you’re advertising in a subtle way.
My point is that the world has moved on since the time of Jesus and the apostles. there are millions of people that daily are hearing about playstations, mobile phones, widescreen tv's, so why shouldn't they also hear about God.
There are people right now in our community that don't know God. There are children without fathers, families without hope. How are we reaching them? How do they know our church exists, and what it exists for? It's no longer possible to reach everyone with a simple talk, or a poster at the front of church. These days we need to be thinking bigger. Advertising and PR reaches so many more people than people realise.
Last week we had an article in the Lancashire Evening Post, reaching around 100,000 readers. It took me 10 minutes to write and send the press release - and potentially 100,000 people read it. I think the question is, what else can we publicise? We need to be doing more of this, so that the public can hear about the church.
hearing about us and reading about us, is an easy stepping stone for the public to come into Church.
The more people hear about something the greater familiarity and ownership they have over something. If people begin to hear more about Church then the barriers will begin to break down. So in my opinion we need to be doing more of it, and ensuring that it is effective
I see your point daz, and agree with what you're saying. But also feel that we should be doing everything to ensure that people hear about Jesus. So yes do all the things we’ve spoken about with Jesus and the apostles did, but also do more, make sure more people hear about Jesus and get the opportunity to come into Church.
I wrote my dissertation (several years ago) on Church Marketing in the UK, I’ll dig it out and put it up for download. |
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Cam
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Post subject: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
Posted: Dec 19, 2005 - 10:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2005
Posts: 1
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The Church should advertise!
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
Jesus did advertise. He performed miracles and wonders in order to demonstrate the truth and power of what God is offering to us. The difference between Jesus’ “advertising” and today’s secular advertising is that God’s promises, to a Christian, do not come with small worded or quickly spoken “terms and conditions apply”
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
Campbell
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
-----Original Message-----
From: daz [mailto:daz@tenderheart.me.uk]
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:25 AM
To: public_access_forum@prestonvineyard.org
Subject: Che Guevara Christmas Poster
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
i think an original idea would be for the church to be all she is in God. i am not opposed advertising campaigns or marketing (i don't like the baby face - why does it have to be white - let's think about it - Jesus would not have been white). anyways, if we, the church, actually believed all that God says in His word & reveals to us through His creation - we will not need advertising or marketing - people will come from all over because they have heard that God has revealed Himself...... the sick are healed, the lepers are made clean, the good news is preached to the poor & demons flee. Look at the gospels, Jesus did not have to advertise to get people to come to hear Him - He did not lobby the favour of the people or local government officials. The disciples & apostles did not advertise.
My question is - should the church advertise?
Preston Vineyard Mail2Forum
Preston Vineyard Mail2Forum |
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MarkCrosby
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 19, 2005 - 10:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Preston
Status: Offline
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Also a few point on advertsing from another Christian website:
(don't confuse marketing with advertising, although advertising does play a role)
- Christians are walking billboards for the church, and too often it's a case of false advertising
- Maybe you think the church shouldn’t market itself. And if by that you mean the church shouldn’t use deceptive tactics, shouldn’t use dishonest methods, shouldn’t misrepresent itself to get people in the door, then you really mean the church shouldn’t use poor marketing efforts.
Marketing is the process of promoting, selling and distributing goods or services. It’s a business concept, but something very similar happens in the church. As much as we bristle at comparing evangelism to a sales pitch, there are certain similarities.
Of course if you picture the very worst salesman on commission, then that will negatively influence your impression of evangelists. But the best salesman is a far cry from our stereotypes. Frankly, we have to have sales people, and they’re not all jerks.
Likewise, the process of marketing happens no matter what. We can either realize that and make sure our marketing doesn’t suck, or we can ignore it and live in ignorance.
Remember that the goal here isn’t to introduce slick and polished business marketing that ruthlessly targets pockets and cashes in on souls. That’s marketing that sucks. Lousy clip art and typos are just as bad as glossy photos of people prettier than your congregation. The goal is being authentic and effective |
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MarkCrosby
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 19, 2005 - 12:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Preston
Status: Offline
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Taken from www.rejesus.co.uk:
Across the UK this Christmas, advertising posters will be encouraging people to think about the meaning of the season, and maybe even try going to church.
But the posters don't show baby Jesus gurgling in a crib, watched over by shepherds and kings in the cosiness of a stable. Instead they show him in eye-grabbing red, and the poster is like a call to revolution.
The poster reads: "Dec 25th. Revolution begins. Celebrate the birth of a Hero." It's about as far from "Away in a manger" as you can get.
So what's it all about?
The revolutionary Jesus
Chas Bayfield works with the Churches Advertising Network, the agency which created the poster. He explains why they abandoned the traditional image of baby Jesus in Bethlehem and went for something close to Che Guevara instead.
"We wanted to take Jesus out of the nativity play and portray him as a modern day hero. The poster shows the Christ of Christmas as a baby, but also as the revolutionary he became."
Chas also worked on a similar poster for Easter a few years ago, showing Jesus as a grown-up revolutionary – shown beneath. Most of the revolutionaries of the 20th century used violence to achieve their aims and caused the deaths of millions of people. So why show Jesus in revolutionary red?
Says Chas Bayfield: "His attitudes and behaviour were revolutionary. He treated women with respect. He spent time with thieves, conmen, hookers and the disease-infected underclasses. He was defiant, yet loving. He was an outlaw, seen as a political agitator, a man hunted and hated by the authorities. His revolution was one of love, respect and hope. In everything he did, Christ was a revolutionary. We wanted to contrast Jesus with the revolutionaries of the 20th century, to make people reconsider what makes a person revolutionary."
Tom Ambrose, who helps run the network which distributes the poster, believes that the revolutionary message of Jesus isn't something which is stuck in the past, but which continues today.
He says: "The church doesn't exist to proclaim a list of 'thou shalt nots'. It exists so that people will discover the love of God and of their neighbour, and, through this shared quest and enjoyment of love, proclaim the coming of God's kingdom. It is a revolution we still need."
The poster is appearing on advertising hoardings and railway stations during the Christmas season, and local churches will also be using it in their publicity for carol services and other special events.
Easter Poster:
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RayBramford
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 19, 2005 - 02:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2005
Posts: 813
Status: Offline
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| I'd agree that evangelism is a form of marketing. We are selling our selves to deliver the Gospel. "You are often the only Bible a person will ever read". However, just assuming a load of folk are really touched by the poster above and flood into the churches on a Sunday morning to meet with "the real Jesus" and only find a bunch of mamby pamby God botherers chanting durges and looking like Jesus has just died not come back to life and who scowl when the new person is sitting in their pew. The campaign at best got a few folk over the tresh hold but at worst confirmed their suspicions......church is boring and full of churchians and hipocrytes. It takes far more than a poster.......... |
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MarkCrosby
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 20, 2005 - 08:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Preston
Status: Offline
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For those interested I've attached my dissertation from 2004. Feel free to download and read. I appreciate it's lacking in certain areas, and when I get back from our travels I'll probably update it with case studies.
In the meantime anyone who has the time feel free to wade their way through it. Any feedback to annaandmark at gmail dot com is always appreciated.
Mark |
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Dissertation 06.05.04.doc |
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